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Black’s TNT as great as ’83 Crispa

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TALK ‘N TEXT players, coaching staff and supporters whoop it up after sweeping their way to the Philippine Cup title. AUGUST DELA CRUZ

TALK ‘N Text will go down in PBA folklore as one of the best teams ever; a squad painstakingly assembled several years back with nothing but greatness in mind.

By ruling the Philippine Cup for the third straight season with a 4-0 sweep of Rain or Shine Wednesday night, the Tropang Texters  carved their names permanently in the annals of Asia’s first play-for-pay league.

They achieved what only one team was able to do before, a feat which only Crispa owned for so long that very few people thought it would ever be duplicated.

So now comes the question: Had these teams been on the same era, which would have been better?

Talk ‘N Text lost just four of 24 games this time, two of them coming in the eliminations and two against Alaska in the Final Four.

In Crispa’s all-Filipino run in 1983, the Redmanizers, according to coach Tommy Manotoc’s recollection, lost just the first game and “I don’t remember losing again for the rest of the tournament.”

The Redmanizers ripped Gilbey’s Gin apart, also scoring a sweep, but at that time, in a best-of-five series.

“It would have been a toss-up,” Talk ‘N Text coach Norman Black said. “That team had a superstar in every position. It was actually ridiculous. I played against that team several times and I know how good all of them were.

“If at all, the only advantage we have is that we could be the more athletic team because of Kelly Williams,” Black added. “All things being equal, I think it would be a great game or series. But I really cannot say who will win because that (Crispa) team was great.”

Black, like Manotoc, also owns a Grand Slam, pulling it off while with San Miguel in 1989, while Manotoc had his in Crispa’s swan song season of 1983, when Billy Ray Bates played as an import in two of the three conferences.

“I think we were as deep as Talk ‘N Text is today,” Manotoc told the Inquirer yesterday. “The only difference I can see if you compare them (Texters) with Crispa in 1983 is that they have Fil-Ams now.”

“And in that regard, with Kelly Williams and Ali Peek there, they have more horsepower than we did in 1983,” Manotoc continued. “But looking at their lineup, and remembering my team, we’re practically the same in the sense that we can both win games using our second units.”

“We are basically the same as far as depth goes because both of those teams can go 10-deep on any given night,” Black said. “In those days, you didn’t know who would star for Crispa in a particular game, like in my team now, I’m the coach, yet I don’t know who is going to be the star of any game.”

It would have been enjoyable to find out whether Ryan Reyes and Jared Dillinger could shut down scorers like Atoy Co and William “Bogs” Adornado; or whether Jason Castro is quicker than Bernie Fabiosa; and how a smooth center like Abet Guidaben could operate in a very physical atmosphere against the likes of Peek, Williams and Ranidel de Ocampo.

And Black admits that Crispa in 1983 could have been younger, because that time, the likes of Yoyoy Villamin, Mon Cruz, Padim Israel, etc., were recruited and were on the way to stardom themselves.

“Another thing that is very different is that the players are more conditioned in these days,” Manotoc said. “The players today are obviously stronger. But I think, if it (Crispa-Talk ‘N Text) is a best-of-seven series, even with the physical conditioning that we had before, we can hold our own.”

Black echoes that fact, acknowledging that teams these days have physical therapists and nutritionists that take care of the players. And in those days, Manotoc and Black were one in saying that players didn’t do physical conditioning that much.

It’s really impossible to know how both Crispa and Talk ‘N Text would fare against each other. It won’t happen.

And while everyone is harping about the ‘three-peat’ of the Redmanizers that the Texters had matched, it seems that this fact has escaped everyone’s mind up to now: Talk ‘N Text is now in a position to win four straight, and if it does so next season, then all bets are off.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_J6UPAAYVZIGTLLX2VEALML3E7A Candido

    Players win games,not the coach. Eh kinuha lahat ng TnT ang mga magagaling na players. If,  for example, Franz Pumaren will coach TnT, eh he will likewise give TnT the championship. Likewise, if Black coaches, a weak team, kulelat pa din..

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6LVAN7WBZHVKDAY7A65MB4V34I Rolando

      I believe, Petron could match TnT, man for man. The difference is age, experience and teamwork. The coach does not play but he holds the baton.

      • pakita_ko_sayo

         yes, totally agree

    • pakita_ko_sayo

       WRONG! Petron is much much more stronger than TNT. Nasa coach yan Candido. Remember Chot Reyes? Multi titled coach pero hirap na hirap mag champion ang TNT. Research muna bago mag post.

  • RS1007

    If I have young, strong and fast boys today,  I will assemble them into a dynasty, a peoples’ team and will put the name on their uniform – CRISPA REDMANIZER.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6LVAN7WBZHVKDAY7A65MB4V34I Rolando

      CRISPA REDMANIZER, the 2nd coming… But is CRISPA still alive, as a company?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GDLJBVQKYUSWJAK6ICQITGFTUU Toni

      I remember our battlecry then: Crispa-nalo Crispa-nalo Crispa-nalo… Toyota-lo Toyota-lo Toyota-lo… hehehe…just reminiscing

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HEKTLSUFG2IHSA5OLF5J2JT5AA yahoo-HEKTLSUFG2IHSA5OLF5J2JT5AA

    @ candido…i think you dont know how to play basketball. it is a teamwork bet. the players and the coach. one of the example is los angles laker. thay have a great players. but what is happening to them.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6LVAN7WBZHVKDAY7A65MB4V34I Rolando

    Norman Black studied the strengths and weaknesses of his players. The players likewise acknowledged that the coach is the head of the team. This can be gleaned with the way players helped and assisted each other in such a way that at any given playing night, not one player monopolized the play. Compare this with an orchestra where Black holds the baton that creates symphony.

  • phantomofhope

    how could they be the same??? All PBA Teams now have Fil-foreigners or kayumangging hilaw…

    Crispa is still the best. 

  • jojo webmail

    the main difference, i think, is that PLDT requires all its employees to attend TNT games; and cheer TNT players, even if they do not know how to recite “bayang magiliw”

    • pakita_ko_sayo

       Jojo, Its not Bayang Magiliw, its Lupang Hinirang. Isa ka pa palang walang alam eh. And hindi ni re recite ang “bayang magiliw” mo, kinakanta yun. Martsa ang beat. Isip muna bago post. And PLDT does not require employees to attent TNT games. Kapag regular games nga daming free tickets na nasasayang. Evidence muna at huwag mag haka haka

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/7X6IL24P5FOE76EMVALO2MFB5Q Ray

        ipakita mo, hindi attent, attend

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/CTDX5KO4MONTV2WRGMCQZJCLLI nba

    TNT, well, what do you expect?
    they’ve got MVPangilinan..well funded team..
    sorry but its a team that money can buy.

    • pakita_ko_sayo

       How about Petron? Ginebra? Deep bench, with SMC money. Wala rin. Tingin naman sa other side ng coin.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EJ6M4HM25V3C4ZCXN6JU2RWJMA Joel

    they are not the same, only if officiating is fair as before should i agree. nasa kanila na nga halos lahat na magaling na player pati ba naman referees kakampi pa nila. sobra na rin politika sa PBA kaya napag-iiwanan na tayo dito sa Asia, baka di na rin tumagal our ASEAN neighbors mapag iwanan na rin tayo.

    • pakita_ko_sayo

       Really>?  You are just bitter in defeat.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/G2UFL7BAIFFUU6TIW4FFAPTVV4 Ghost

    Todays team is definitely stronger, taller and more scientifically trained, BUT…

    Crispa pa rin! Who’s better in terms of prowess is still debatable but im betting that Crispa have inspired our generation more than TNT could have inspired today’s generation.
    .

  • Ron Anderson

    Nung panahon na namamayagpag ang Crispa, walang therapist, walang nutritionist, walang conditioning coach, walang Fil-Am, hindi scientific ang laro (larong patio lang).  Imaginin nyo na lang kung meron ang lahat nang yan nung panahon na yon? Tapos ikukumpara sa TnT ngayon? NO DICE!

  • kentjohn

    syempre magaling ang talk n text ,x guidaben lng yata mg dunk noon ung iba hirap,ngaun alapag nga mag dunk tapos dami pang fil am,kahit c bates kasama nla tapos walang import tnt kaya parin ..kayang bantayan ni williams un,,c williams nga halos import na rin..c atoy lng ang my 3 points noon .s talk n text pti  c 

  • http://www.facebook.com/amour.dulos Amour Dulos

    Although I am a Toyota fan, I have to say that the Crispa Redmanizer is the better team. If Adornado, Co, Guidaben, Hubalde etc were at their prime right now…I would bet on that team any day to go against TNT.



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